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[edit] What's the best way to add navigation between pages to MediaWiki pages?

--Ricks 15:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC) : I don't know. FWIW, I still think that using categories would be better -- you get the navigation for "free" simply by adding the category list to the bottom of the page. For example, consider the STC Organization pages -- Each page (such as the Carolina Chapter page, has a link back to its category parent.

--Destry 18:14, 5 August 2007 (UTC) : Funny, I just realized the example was for the Forum Help, when all this time I was thinking in terms of the wiki help, which is what my initial response to the example was in reflection to (no wonder it seemed odd to me, I didn't interpret it correctly). In this case, a categorization could work, but you give up the nice indexation page that Eddie Hollen has structured, which is probably easier to scan when you first land on the forum help content main page, though even here you could use subcategories for the different groupings, certainly.

User:Destry 17 August 2007 : I added some previous-next navigation via templates to a few of the STC Organization pages (early "A" chapter pages) to demonstrate just one kind of navigation possibility via templates; this one being a bit advanced because it makes us of template parameters.

• I don't know, personally I do not like the forward/next navigation. I think builds an artificial (and incorrect) relationship among the chapters. Consider the Carolina_Chapter page... the previous/next chapters have no relationship. I find it hard to imagine an instance when a visitors would want to navigate through the list of chapters alphabetically. Since chapters are based on geographical locales, I still think that a navigation structure (categories?) that takes this into account is the way to go. For example, for the Carolina chapter, the "navigation" structure might be: USA > Southeast > NC. --Ricks 14:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Previous-Next Navigation

--Alwiley 01:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC) : (1) The next and previous navigation is nice, but what is the source of the next and previous chapter or SIG names? (2) What happens when a chapter is dissolved or one is formed? (3) Does having this navigation really add value to these pages? (4) Why would someone want to navigate between the chapters and SIGs in alphabetical order? This is a very useful demonstration, of course, for places where we might want to navigate between pages in sequential order.

Destry 12:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC) :

(1) Their respective wiki pages; e.g., Alaska Chapter.

(2) The world comes to an end? No, seriously, so what...you simply edit the navigation tag in the affected pages (at most 3) to fix the previous-next order; two minutes tops.

(3 and 4) These are the real questions, in my opinion. The point of demonstrating this navigation was not to suggest this is the best way to navigate between entity pages, rather it was a demonstration of one possible way to use templates (and named parameters) for navigation. It's up to the ingenious masses to take the insight and run with it as they see fit. I only demonstrated it because it was asked about. In my opinion, there's no need for template navigation in these pages at all because the category links (at the bottom of the pages) provides sufficient "jumps" to key indexes already. At the moment, there is no content in the wiki that would greatly benefit from using previous-next navigation. If there were a project like a multi-page document with chapters and sections written on different pages (like a book), then the forward and back navigation in the document would be sensible, but there's no content like that right now. You're probably better off to just remove the examples I've given since they seem to be more confusing than helpful.

--Alwiley 01:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC) : I think we need a template page with the information Lou has in the table for each chapter or SIG, and we need to move the information from the table to the page for each group. We should also have Chapter-sponsored SIGs Yes or No, and Scholarships Yes or No, where Yes is hyperlinked to the web page with the information, if possible.

--Destry 12:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC) : A template of this nature, something user:Ricks has already requested, is not possible with wiki functionality alone (maybe not at all, regardless). I've tried to explain that already in Grappling the Ins and Outs of Reusable Wiki Content. The concept is indeed confusing, a bit abstract, and I think the fault lies with MediaWiki choosing to call this functionality "templates" when that's not really how the rest of the world thinks of templates. Most people think of templates like what exist in Microsoft Word, where you pick one and then edit it further for a given document. That's not how wiki templates work. Wiki templates are more like PHP includes, but now I'm repeating myself.

Ricks 14:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC) : Actually, I'm pretty sure that templates are possible... or at least possible on Wikipedia -- I believe it is called an Infobox. I think you simply need to define an infobox (e.g., "Chapter Info"), then anyone can call that infobox to a wiki page. At least, that's how Wikipedia does it. However, Mediawiki's syntax and structure to creating page layout is (IMHO) overly complex. :(

Destry 17:25, 26 August 2007 (UTC) : Yes, templates are possible, that's certainly not in dispute, and an "infobox" is another good demonstration of using named parameters in a template as I did with the previous-next navigation. I just wasn't sure how you guys thought templates work. I'm still not, actually, but maybe we can do something infobox-ish and we'll see if a template is really what you think will for for everyone (I still have doubts). As for page layout in MediaWiki, I guess it just depends on what you're comfortable with. I don't think it is any more difficult than doing something in normal HTML, it's exactly the same, in fact. Ideally, what we need to do is model a template how you guys want it to be, and then I'll rebuild it by separating out the content aspects from the presentation aspects (putting the styling in the CSS); it will be easier to "read" the template without the styling code muddying things up.

To do what you are describing, there's no mystery or automated magic trick. You simply agree on a given page structure that you want to use on every entity (chapter or sig) page and make people follow that structure manually as they create their content. That's all there is to it. In this case you can invent something like a page structure guide (a "stencil", if you prefer) that others can then copy/paste and modify afterwards, but that's as good as it gets, and probably more effective/productive right now anyway. Further, you don't need me to do that, anybody can do it. Simply start a new regular page, design it how you want it to look, then everywhere that represents content to be changed respective to each chapter or sig, you make the text red (or whatever) to indicate it's a content location to be changed when the stencil is used. Call the pages (a stencil for each entity type) some like Chapter Index Stencil and SIG Index Stencil and provide links at the top of the category:STC Organization page. There, I already did it. Now you only need to design the stencil structures as you like. Get Ricks to lend a hand. A new wiki project is born. :)

--Alwiley 02:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC) Regarding (1) above, the question is simpler--did you find a recent list of all the chapters and SIGs someplace?

Destry 18:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC) : Ah, okay. I just used Lou's Community Data tables. However, I noticed that the Charlotte Regional STC Chapter, which I created a forum for yesterday, was incorrect in the data tables (still the Metrolina Chapter, or something like that). Ideally, and perhaps with time, communities will simply police their own pages and we won't have to worry about name changes or broken links, more people will just start taking care of their own, including page titles and links throughout.

The Next and Previous demo is very valuable, and it's fine to leave it in place until we start working on these pages. Then the demo could appear in the Glossary, where it would be just for demonstration purposes.

Destry 18:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC) : As you like, I intend to relocate the information into the help:Understanding and Using Templates anyway.

By template I meant a basic page with certain information to complete for each chapter or SIG, such as mail list and newsletter. The information would be yes or no, with yes hyperlinked to the web page. I wouldn't try to inventory the characteristics of these, such as open or closed list, since that information is dynamic and wiki authors have no control over it.

Destry 18:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC) : The stencil idea is all you need then. I wouldn't worry about trying to make them fancy right now. Once the new skin is in place, new content styling options will begin to appear. I'll be creating a few style classes that can be used to get going that will make presentation of certain data really nice, tables for example. Trust me, good things are around the corner.